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Fracking views

Marietta citizens offer opinions to city officialsMarietta citizens offer opinions to city officials

February 19, 2014

Marietta City Council members heard from folks on both sides of the oil and gas horizontal hydraulic fracturing (fracking) debate during a special public meeting of council’s lands, buildings and......

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(49)

armycorp

Feb-21-14 11:22 AM

Josh - Thanks, thats ok. Hey, open your mind to the fossils fuels proponents. It is the driving force for developed counties. They are the cleanest in the world. It is no accident. Yes, it is somewhat dangerous to develop and has some minor concerns to the environment, but all forms of energy do as well. Without cheap oil and gas we lose our freedom to travel, time saving devices, fertilizer, almost everything. The benefits of oil and gas far outweigh any real concerns it presents. Google Alex Epstein for thoughtful agruments.

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JoshBrown

Feb-20-14 4:32 PM

armycorp I miss read when you wrote "usable" as" unstable " it's been a long day sorry. You were not wrong about Fuel cells being run by natural gas some companies do this because of the high heat it makes for other uses .

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armycorp

Feb-20-14 4:29 PM

I found what you read. "usable". I may have misspelled "useable". I still don't know how to spell it for sure. but not unstable.

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armycorp

Feb-20-14 4:25 PM

Josh - I just read the fuel cell website as you suggested. They said they start with methane. I know that is natural gas. I did not say anywhere here that it is unstable. Please point out my statement if I'm wrong. No one is saying that the idea is bad. It just not economic yet. Is that the idea of the carbon tax to make fuel cells artifically economic by raising the cost of fossil fuels? I had never thought of that before. I thought is was just a sociallistic idea of wealth redistribution.

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JoshBrown

Feb-20-14 4:15 PM

armycorp Also Fuel cells are Not unstable NASA uses them all the time in space crafts to make power. So please save your propaganda for someone else.

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JoshBrown

Feb-20-14 4:11 PM

armycorp You need to do more research you don't need Natural gas to use a fuel cell at all.Fuel Cells run on Hydrogen which can be made by any type of power from solar,wind,hydroelectric and makes NO pollution unlike Nat Gas, oil,and coal. The great thing about Hydrogen is it's very easy to make and store and is even less dangerous than propane to store.The Time is now for Fuel Cells and we will be seeing more and more of them over the next few years.

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armycorp

Feb-20-14 3:51 PM

I see what you mean now about siphon! :) wow. These guys are strict!!

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armycorp

Feb-20-14 3:48 PM

but you can*****for another 100 years with the current reserves and technology. It's hardly last resort. Fuel cell may well be the future. It does sound great. When it is commercial it will drive hydrocarbons out of business just like whale oil. But until then, lets not fool ourselves and believe lies and distortions to stop fossil fuels prematurely and or drive up costs to redistribute wealth.

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armycorp

Feb-20-14 3:12 PM

Josh - I checked it out. The process takes natural gas and adds energy to break it into Co2 and H2. You then oxidize the CO2 with more energy and use the resultant H2 to generate your usable energy. Its cool, but it uses more energy than it creates at this time. What do we do for at least 11 years. Of course that is when the earth over heats from global warming and we'll all be dead anyway.

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JoshBrown

Feb-20-14 1:40 PM

armycorp if uou would like to learn more about fuel cells there is a huge conference here in Ohio the first week of June just google it.

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JoshBrown

Feb-20-14 1:21 PM

armycorp Fuel cells is whats going to replace gas/oil by 2025 .Honda has a new car coming out in 2015 that runs on a fuel cell.A fuel cell makes electricity at an 80% efficiency rate compared to oil/gas that only make it at a 30% rate.If you hooked one to your home with solar panals it would take care of all your power needs .The problem is the cost right now but in 5 years or less the price will be dowm in the range where normal people can buy them for their home.

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armycorp

Feb-20-14 12:55 PM

Josh - Please explain your plan. You are very anti the way it is. What do we have to look forward to under your plan?

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JoshBrown

Feb-20-14 12:29 PM

armycorp I can do with out your type of "American life Style "making people sick and killing them so someone can drive a SUV on cheap gas sounds twisted and sick.But don't worry we will be paying a lot more for nature gas as soon as the nat gas plants are built and they ship it around the world to the highest bider.The oil/gas drillers don't want cheap gas/oil for American there is no huge profits in it.The oil/gas companys will rape this valley till there is nothing left but the sick &dying and a billion plus gallons of toxic cancer causing waste water.

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armycorp

Feb-20-14 12:02 PM

In favor of the energy that causes the least damage and threat to the environment. Right now that is oil and gas. Coal has issues with water and soils. Wind leaves a huge footprint for the energy created, solar just doesn't work for mass supply, hydro is great, but limited and nuclear has political problems, but is a good source. Natural gas is concentrated energy, small footprint per BTU generated with minimal environmental problems. Gas makes the most sense. That why I contest the comments against it. I like my American life-style and don't want a European way.

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armycorp

Feb-20-14 7:54 AM

How do you want to power your lifestyle?

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oldhickory

Feb-19-14 7:34 PM

Quotations should appear on all paragraphs as quoted her verbatem

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oldhickory

Feb-19-14 7:34 PM

When asked about the suit, MN Commerce Commissioner, Mike Rothman, said: “They lied on their applications.” Cases have been filed across the US. According to Reuters, Colorado has also signed settlement agreements for $35 million, with 3 companies. An additional 9 states have won settlements totaling over $100 million, over the last 3 years. Lawsuits are still pending in at least 7 other states. Colorado Attorney General John Suthers was quoted in a telephone interview:

“It appears this was a really common practice and it’s very disconcerting. Basically the companies were defrauding the state.”

In spite of the massive settlements reached in these cases, none of the big oil companies have yet admitted to wrong doing.

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oldhickory

Feb-19-14 7:32 PM

According to the startribune, the Minnesota (MN) Commerce Department filed suit against BP PLC, on February 17, 2014. The state claims that BP has fraudulently collected more than $25 million from a state fund, while also being reimbursed by insurers for cleaning up leaking underground petroleum tanks.The BP suit also states that the company violated the state’s False Claims Act, which can lead to a reward of triple the damages. The state also accuses the oil company of ‘misrepresentation, fraud and unjust enrichment’.

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oldhickory

Feb-19-14 7:32 PM

cont. "According to Reuters, who gained access to many of the case files after filing a freedom of information request: “One document from 2006, for example, shows Chevron received a check for $19,000 from the state to clean up and monitor a leak at a gas station in the small, southern New Mexico town of Artesia. On the application to receive money from the tank fund, the company checked “No” next to the question: “Do you have insurance?” The company did have insurance and collected another $19,000 from the insurance carrier, after receiving money from the state’s fund. MN claims BP collected over $25 million through fraud."

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oldhickory

Feb-19-14 7:31 PM

His team’s research has now led to more than 20 cases of fraud against big oil companies. Multimillion dollar settlements have already been reached in Arizona, Utah, New Mexico and elsewhere. The majority of the cases involve leaking tanks, a problem which many states try to address by offering companies access to a taxpayer funded ‘clean-up fund.’ The records show that big oil companies collected money for clean-up purposes from various state funds. The companies later billed their insurance carriers for the clean up costs, which had been covered by the state.

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oldhickory

Feb-19-14 7:30 PM

Cont. "Schruben, with the help of an environmental and civil rights attorney named Dennis Pantazi, organized a research team, that was made up of lawyers, investigators and other experts. Schruben, who has over 30 years experience working with underground storage tanks, was also formerly employed with the EPA".

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oldhickory

Feb-19-14 7:29 PM

According to Randa Morris... "New research carried out by a team of experts shows that big oil companies have been profiting twice from toxic spills. An environmental engineer from Maryland, by the name of Thomas Schruben, set out to prove that oil companies like Exxon, BP, Chevron and Shell have been double dipping. Schruben proved that these companies were collecting both taxpayer money and insurance payments, for the exact same costs. Schruben put together a team of experts to examine insurance records and state documents."

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oldhickory

Feb-19-14 7:16 PM

ask not, the irony of the whole thing is not that what you described was predicted before hand but rather when the owner was being interviewed he was drinking bottled water!

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oldhickory

Feb-19-14 7:15 PM

Josh, thanks for sharing your personal story. Keep up the good fight for us all. Thanks

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scrappile

Feb-19-14 6:09 PM

Now in the early 80's boom, there was a young man on a double air/over working evening tower, around 3500 ft., the rotary drilled into an underground river, now we know the water table is contained in these rivers, and aquifers, and we consume this water, rather from city well, personal well, or even that soda/beer, so tell me again how some can be 100% in their belief that no contamination will occur, given the fact that to err is human.....

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