Guns: Views run deep
Events raise awarenessBy Brad Bauer, bbauer@mariettatimes.com
Article Photos
Fact Box
Ohio law¯ No person under 18 can purchase or attempt to purchase a firearm, and no person under the age of 21 can purchase or attempt to purchase a handgun, except for law enforcement officers who have had firearms training approved by the Ohio Peace Officer Training Council.
¯ It is illegal to furnish any firearm to anyone under 18, or a handgun to anyone under 21 except for lawful hunting, sporting or educational purposes, including, but not limited to, instruction in firearm or handgun safety, care, handling or marksmanship under the supervision of a responsible adult.
¯ No person shall knowingly discharge a firearm while in or on a motor vehicle.
¯ No person shall knowingly transport or have a loaded firearm in a motor vehicle in such a manner that the firearm is accessible to the operator or any passenger without leaving the vehicle.
¯ No person under the influence of alcohol, drugs or any combination of the two shall knowingly transport or have a loaded handgun in a motor vehicle.
¯ Licenses to carry concealed handguns are good for five years.
Source: Ohio Revised Code
Lee Hamel sees polished steel cradled in a carved piece of maple lumber — a finely crafted instrument used for hunting, target shooting or defense.
Guns have always evoked a wide range of emotions, but the debate over guns and the right to carry them is heating up in the wake of last week’s shootings at Northern Illinois University in which a gunman killed five students and himself, and last year’s attack at Virginia Tech, where a student shot and killed 32 people, then himself.
Nearly two weeks ago, four guns and ammunition were discovered in a student’s car parked on the Marietta College campus. Although school and law enforcement officials said the car’s owner, student Robert Walker, was a gun enthusiast with no intention of harming anyone, the incident made students and community members nervous.
Walker was suspended indefinitely for violating the school’s policy against having weapons on campus and eventually charged with a fourth-degree felony concealed-carry violation. A warrant was recently issued for his arrest after he did not appear for a hearing in Marietta Municipal Court, although the prosecutor’s office said it is believed he left the country to be with his parents in Madrid, Spain.
The warrant has a pickup radius of only Washington and adjoining Ohio counties, meaning if Walker were stopped by police farther away, he would not be arrested on the local charge.
Several states are now considering allowing some students or faculty members to carry guns on campus, areas that have traditionally been gun-free zones, except for law enforcement.
“I wouldn’t feel safe if that was the case,” said Oliver, 24, of Marietta, who is a student at Washington State Community College. “It is a matter of trust, and you can’t trust anyone you don’t know.”
Those in favor of the measure say law-abiding citizens should be allowed to defend themselves. A bill under consideration in Alabama would allow students at state-supported colleges and universities to carry guns if they had the proper licenses, had no criminal convictions, were in good standing with the university, completed a gun course and were participating in an ROTC military program. At least 10 other states are considering similar measures.
So far, nothing similar has been introduced in Ohio.
Hamel, 58, of Macksburg said he would support a measure to allow some students or faculty members to carry guns on campus.
“If there are people who can stop someone attempting to kill a bunch of people , it is better to have them than not,” Hamel said.
Ohio Rep. Jennifer Garrison, D-Marietta, said students would be safer if faculty members were armed. She said students probably should not have guns.
“Trained faculty members and administrators should be able to carry guns on campus to help keep students safe,” she said. “Students should feel safe on campuses, and parents should feel their children are safe when they are at school.”
Garrison said she expects the Legislature to take up the debate later this year.
Oliver said guns should be reserved for law enforcement and hunting only.
Hamel, a former Cleveland police officer, said some people don’t understand gun ownership.
“When I was in college I met a lot of folks from New York and other big cities who thought I was a barbarian because I had guns,” he said. “But they just didn’t understand. They weren’t raised around guns. In this part of Ohio and West Virginia, people still hunt and get a gun when they are very young and probably hunt their entire lives.”
Hamel said gun ownership is a right, but also a hobby and a potential investment. For the past 17 years he has been building guns, some of which have taken more than 500 hours to craft.
“At that point, it is almost like your baby. Once it is finished, you hand it to someone and you’re showing it around and you’re afraid someone is going to drop it,” he said.
Hamel’s latest work will be presented to the keynote speaker at the National Rifle Association’s annual banquet in May in Louisville, Ky.
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lpiavdmp
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02-24-08 2:32 PM
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I don't think allowing concealed carry has anything to do with a domestic arms race. Most people that would carry already own firearms. The AWB of 1994 did more for sale of firearms and put more money into the pockets of manufacturers than anything they could have fabricated themselves. You want a Domestic arms race start proposing legislation for banning semi-auto weapons and see if 10% of America doesn't just run out and purchase as many guns as they can afford to grandfather into the law. Sweeping gun control just because it makes you feel better from an uneducated (about guns) point of view will only strengthen resistance to your cause and make you seem unreasonable by proposing all semi-autos should be banned instead of just asking for loopholes to be closed that make it easier for criminals to get their hands on them. Until someone figures out a way to keep someone physically bigger than me from using his advantage to harm my family or I, I will be prepared to defend us.
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ladynoogs
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02-24-08 12:18 AM
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well said frog... get the the root of the problem... we dont want our city or country turning into the wild west where guns ruled and hot heads used them. We dont need more guns to feel safe, the fewer guns in this world the better. The "domestic arms race" is terrifing. My dad alone has over 10 guns, thankfully most are old or muzzleloaders or he doesnt have bullets for them and they gladly will BE DESTROYED upon his death. And someone made the point that when the constitution was written guns were "less deadly" that is totally true. As far as i'm concerned there is no need for a private citizen to have a "semi-automatic" weapon. Criminals will always find ways of illegally gaining them but they are usually to dumb to make themselves a gun. So its up to the manufacturers to stop production. but of course that will never happen in our capitalist society.
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TheFrog
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02-23-08 11:37 PM
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Parrothead, Thanks for the good discussion. I think you make a lot of good points, but I'm still concerned about the possibility of something like this turning into a "domestic arms race." I'd rather live in a society where the vast majority of people don't have to carry weapons in order to feel safe, and I think there is a very fine balance to knowing when enough is enough with something like this. Take a look at Mexico where there is almost an all out war being fought between police, drug cartels, etc. Feeding more guns into the fight hasn't exactly helped things there. I just think we need to be sure we keep an open mind to addressing the CAUSES of violence before getting too carried away about trying to counter violence with more violence. Certainly we must remain vigilant in maintaining our own security, but this should not distract us from also addressing the underlying problems of why mostly unprecedented brutal gun violence has occurred.
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IsaacEastwood
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02-23-08 9:45 PM
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I don't have a problem with guns (generally) but the problems being faced on Marietta College with numerous rapes over the years and now guns with thousands of rounds of amo... seems like a powder keg waiting to explode imo.
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lynn45750
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02-23-08 9:26 PM
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Consider this - if we arm the teachers/professors only....the "crazy" then knows who to shoot first!! That only makes teachers the first target. Let law abiding citizens carry.
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ledzeptour
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02-23-08 3:55 PM
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Guns are no good if they are not loaded, I would not want to carry a gun and then come time to use it (heaven forbid that would ever happen)and it not be loaded, follow the law on conceal carry its the law and its for your protection as well as law enforcements I like what "thecutlerkids" says and how he says it, you can tell you will never see it unless the unthinkable, thats the kinda person who needs top be carrying, not one who lets ya peak at what he has in his pocket. Then there are some who cant even find it when they need it, you know who you are, LOL
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Parrothead
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02-23-08 3:51 PM
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Mtta4life – This is a good question and one that I have struggled with because I have always driven trucks or SUV’s. I also brought this up pertaining to the Jeep Wrangler that the student at MC had his guns in. I do not know if it is legal or not but I have always had the gun and the ammo separated as much as possible within the vehicle. I also make sure that the gun and the ammo is inside separate cases and that at least one of these is locked. I was pulled over for speeding once while I had my weapons and ammo stored in this manner and the State Highway Patrolman did not have a problem with it. I did however inform him of the presence of the weapons when he approached my vehicle. That may have help by showing him that I was not trying to conceal anything. Who knows?
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mtta4life
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02-23-08 2:57 PM
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I have another question. I think I understand to cary a weapon in your car the ammo and gun must be separate. If you drive a van or SUV that does not have a trunk to shut and lock where do you put the ammo.? You can still reach it in the glove compartment without having to get out of your car and I thought the way I read it you have to get out of the vehicle to get the ammo.
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ledzeptour
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02-23-08 2:24 PM
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NO DEBATE HERE bREAK INTO MY HOUSE LATE AT NIGHT AND GUESS WHAT THERE WONT BE A DEBATE, THERE WONT BE TALK, THERE WONT EVEN BE HI'S AND GOODBYES PREPARE TO MEET THY GOD..........PERIOD AND I WILL DEAL WITH WHAT HAPPENS AFTERWARDS AND I WILL ANSWER THE QUESTIONS LATER THAT MAY COME UP SOMETIMES YA JUST CANT CROSS CERTAIN LINES NO MATTER WHAT
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Parrothead
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02-23-08 1:52 PM
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Yeah – crazy isn’t it? I guess we are supposed to hold the door open for them if their only intent is to steel our TV.
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mtta4life
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02-23-08 1:40 PM
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so "cancelled weapon" is the same as a license to carry a concealed weapon? Slightly confused. I have actually read up on the concealed license and was amazed at how many precautions you would even need to take prior to shooting an intuder in your home to avoid a law suit....crazy! You have to be sure they are going to do deadly damage to you? Am I suppose to interview them before I shoot them? If they are in my house as has been the case in our town during the night while I am sleeping and I wake up I can only assume they are going to do deadly damage. Especially if they know I am there in the house.
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Parrothead
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02-23-08 12:55 PM
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Cancelled carry is when a law abiding citizen takes classes on safe gun handling, has a background check and then passes a test given by the state. If all phases of the process are completed satisfactory, the state licenses them to carry a cancelled weapon upon their person.
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Parrothead
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02-23-08 12:53 PM
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Yes classes in self defense would help to Frog, but I believe that they would be a part of the solution along with licensed armed citizens. As things are now these cowards know where they can attack with the least chance of anyone stopping them before they have completed their planned attack. They really aren’t afraid of dying; most of them take their own life after they have finished their attack. We just need ways to end their killing as soon as possible.
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mtta4life
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02-23-08 12:53 PM
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What is "cancelled carry?"
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TheFrog
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02-23-08 12:01 PM
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Parrothead, I'm not in complete disagreement with you, but wouldn't also help to have some level of self defense and emergency medical response training? If kids are taught in school how to bake pies, why not also teach some level of self defense and emergency medical response? There seems to be an assumption somewhere that everyone is supposed to be defenseless if they don't carry a weapon and aren't specifically designated to enforce security. I think this false notion can be dispelled by other means, such as training, that don't involve arming more people and encouraging a domestic arms race. Of course, I'd guess the gun manufacturers would like us to believe otherwise.
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Parrothead
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02-23-08 11:45 AM
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I have posted this before and believe that licensed gun carrying citizens are our best defense against cowardly lunatics that prey on innocent, defenseless people. Part of the reason we see more of this these days can be attributed to drug use, but part of the blame rests with the media. The Media gives them a platform and makes them famous because of their atrocious acts. An example of this is our own local WTAP. Mr Walker having a warrant issued against him has been headline news for 3 days. GIVE IT A BREAK ALREADY! Courts issue warrants everyday, do those get this much airtime? As for the mental state of gun owners, if someone wants to hurt people they will find a way. The perpetrators at Columbine had explosives! Luckily they didn’t work, but they had them. The man in Illinois could have killed just as many after class let out with his car. We can not protect against the will of others to inflict injury 100% of the time. Cancelled carry is one option that will help.
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Parrothead
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02-23-08 11:45 AM
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I have posted this before and believe that licensed gun carrying citizens are our best defense against cowardly lunatics that prey on innocent, defenseless people. Part of the reason we see more of this these days can be attributed to drug use, but part of the blame rests with the media. The Media gives them a platform and makes them famous because of their atrocious acts. An example of this is our own local WTAP. Mr Walker having a warrant issued against him has been headline news for 3 days. GIVE IT A BREAK ALREADY! Courts issue warrants everyday, do those get this much airtime? As for the mental state of gun owners, if someone wants to hurt people they will find a way. The perpetrators at Columbine had explosives! Luckily they didn’t work, but they had them. The man in Illinois could have killed just as many after class let out with his car. We can not protect against the will of others to inflict injury 100% of the time. Cancelled carry is one option that will help.
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TheFrog
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02-23-08 11:41 AM
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mtta4life, I understand what you're saying, but I've also met teachers where NEVER IN A MILLION YEARS would I want them to have a gun in the same school with my kid. In my opinion, we should have more defense training for our citizens at an early age. Just like tornado or fire drills, kids and teachers should be taught how to defend themselves and work together to defend against various kinds of threats. In other countries people are required to go to military boot camp before they graduate from their equivalent of high school. I don't think we need to go that far, but we should train at least some level of self defense and emergency medical response for our citizens. This could go a long way toward helping prevent or respond to emergencies as they develop in schools or in other situations. It is good that we have rapid emergency response systems but many responders say that they usually arrive after a threat has passed.
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TheFrog
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02-23-08 11:16 AM
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[cont'd] ...problems.
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TheFrog
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02-23-08 11:14 AM
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The fact of the matter is that guns have been around in this country for a long time without the kinds of horrible things we have seen recently in the news. I think the gun issue has become complicated because guns have become more dangerous than they used to be (back when the Constitution was written it took almost 2 full minutes to reload) and there are new societal problems that weren't faced in the past. In my opinion, it is a major problem how many people are now on some form of drug that has the potential to alter mood or even personality. Doctors are quick to prescribe drugs whenever someone doesn't feel happy or parents think their kids are too hyperactive. How many millions of people are now on "happy" drugs and what are the side effects of those drugs? Weren't LEGALLY PRESCRIBED drugs involved in some way in the Northern Illinois University case? Maybe more importantly, what happens when people rely on drugs to feel good instead of trying to address their real
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mtta4life
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02-23-08 11:00 AM
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I actually have had several conversations which have changed my way of thinking...if teachers and administrators, even at the middle/high school level were allowed to have concealed weapons and the students and parents knew this could it not prevent the Columbine's of the world from happening or at least minimize the outcome? A young adult or angry parent comes in ready to blast knowing everyone in the facility is unarmed and basically sitting ducks versus not knowing who is armed and knowing there is the strong possibility you will be shot or detained before you can carry out your death wish??? Just food for thought....
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Orchardfarmer
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02-23-08 10:57 AM
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In the late 1970's, Skokie, IL passed a gun ban. In response, Kennesaw, GA passed a law REQUIRING gun ownership by all property owners. 15 years later, Skokie was a violent city. Kennesaw was virtually crime-free (2 burglaries a year in a city of 50,000 plus). Criminals break laws; Let law-abiding citizens be presumed innocent and allow them to defend themselves on campus or anywhere else.
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cincyreds45212
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02-23-08 10:29 AM
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It's terrible what happened at Va tech, but the truth of the matter is some of them died because the law forbiding carry conseal on campus. Someone on that campus would have possibley wounded the guy before it became so ugly. And as terrible as this sounds a lot of them died because instead of fighting back they coward in a corner of the room. Many experts say that if you are in a room and someone comes in with a gun the last thing you want to do is drop and cover your face. They say to run directly at the guy while throwing objects at the shooter. If 2 or 3 ppl are brave enough to do this, lives will be saved. If not many usually die.
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ladynoogs
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02-23-08 9:52 AM
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My dad owns guns. He's mentally ill (not diagonsed b/c he wont go to a Doctor), he would never intentionally harm someone BUT if the "wrong" person, even if they didnt pose a threat, knocked on his door or scared him at the wrong time he may get out a gun. I've asked the sheriff, and I can't remove the guns from his home w/o his permission, which i will never get. There are people who should NOT own guns even though the law says they can. I wouldnt let my son go to school where ANYONE other than the police officer had one. Because everyone has the ability to just "snap". And who says you can trust a cop? One of the headlines on this very website for two or three days has been a cop who beat his wife. What if he had a gun handy? he could have shot her as well? Guns in public are only for on duty police who. No other reason! And yse guns dont kill people, people do, but guns make it alot eaiser, do you think Columbine could have happened with knives?
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toolmandcb2
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02-23-08 9:23 AM
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Times have changed...I remember taking my guns to school and working on them in shop class, during hunting season everybody had a rack in the back window of their pick up in the school parking lot. Now as a licensed carrier in AR and also work in law enforcement I can't even carry my gun onto school property to pick up my kids. A law enforcement officer can only go onto school properties here with a gun if he is in uniform and has been dispatched there. Do you think somebody that is going to commit a crime is going to follow all the laws?
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